20 thoughts on “I’d like opinions…So the Survey Says…”
Recovering Waywardsaid:
And I know that my ex-OW would do anything she could to hurt my wife, to shake her up, to put a wrench in our recovery. I know that it pisses her off to no end that my wife and I are still together.
I would be careful with knowing too many details of an affair. I blogged about this. There are people that say that knowing too many details will damage and/or derail a recovery. It’s not where your focus needs to be. I don’t know your personal situation, but ask yourself this: What do you need to know and why? You’re not specific on this point. Do you not believe that he’s told you about the length and extent of the affair? Or are you looking for salacious details. How many times did they do it? Where did they do it?
And are you likely to get this info from the ex-OW? Will they be truthful, or self-serving, or worse, vicious? And once you get it, what will it do for you? And can you get it any other way?
As one psychologist said – she herself a former betrayed spouse — as recovery proceeds, you will find that you will need the details of the affair less and less. Knowing the details may actually hurt you and recovery. So try and resist the urge.
Yeh, I suppose I wasn’t specific about what I want or need because it’s still undetermined. I suppose mostly I need a sense of whether my instincts are correct and I can trust reality or whether I must always be on guard for the other shoe to drop and a new variation of truth to be introduced. I suppose I want to know what she has that I don’t. While at the same time knowing she has nothing I don’t already have. She and every other was an illusion. I want to know if he lied to her about his feelings for her. Perhaps I want to know if she truly did not know about me. I want to know if he told her what he said he told her or if he left her hanging on just in case I decided to walk away. Maybe I want to break what ever control she has in my life, though rationally I know she has none. Hell wayward, I don’t know what I want from it. I know from your blog that things are not easy on the Waywards end of this mess but you can only imagine the amount of conflict on the betrayed side. There is logic in the concept that marriages or relationships that are lacking and don’t fill both needs are vulnerable to affairs. I understand the whole love bank concept. I get it. But the thing the wayward partner has such difficulty in understanding is that regardless of what problems there were, WE had no choice in this decision of infidelity. One of us was toughing it out, good or bad, and the other CHOSE to take their mind body and in some cases heart and share it with another or others. It is easy to comprehend what that might be like for us but it is much more difficult to be able to get in our skin and discover empathy that lets you FEEL what it’s like. Logic means absolutely nothing when it comes to trying to reconcile the emotions that we feel from it all. We can study love banks and need fulfillment and every other approach to the topic and it doesn’t matter that we get it. And trust me that most of us do. Still, the betrayed spouse has to get through the one single bottom line…Our partners chose to stray and we did not. We get through it, we do get stronger and relationships can thrive after the fact. But there are moments in between the devastation and the acceptance when logic just isn’t practical in our world. The only thing practical in our world is the determination to purge the rage, sorrow, and confusion and take ourselves and our lives back so that we can one day give ourselves again. I hope that makes sense. Some days I convey thoughts well. Other days.. not so much
There’s no one answer. It depends on the situation. What was the nature of the affair? One night? or 5 years? How is the wayward spouse acting now? Are they making amends, making real changes in their behavior to live an honest and authentic life? And what of the AP? Do they have a stake in this at all? Are they making trouble? And what of the betrayed spouse? is there mind in the right place to handle things? What are their goals in talking to the AP?
And there must be other questions. Too many variables to have one answer to the question.
I know, for us, my wife contacting the AP would have no good outcomes, which is obvious to those who’ve read my blog.
Thanks Wayward. I agree that there is not a one size fits all answer here. Just curious, why would there be no good outcome? Because your wife isn’t in a place where she could handle facing it or because the AP would tell her things that you have hidden or altered in some way? I’m not attacking, just genuinely curious about the waywards point of view.
Well, because the OP is actively stalking and harassing me and is under court order to stay away from us.
But that aside, I truly think she is mentally ill. She has not admitted that she has done anything wrong — she is playing the victim. She is vicious, cruel, and “truth” is a floating concept to her. I can’t imagine that my wife would get anything out of discussing the situation with her that would be helpful, let alone accurate. In fact, she would probably want to rip her eyes out. My wife already knows what a destructive, jealous, narcissistic, bitch that she is — she’s given us plenty of evidence. Meeting with her would then gain what? Nothing, except serious ugliness. Maybe even violence.
There is no reason to contact the AP. I honestly think that they won’t tell the truth, or they’ll be so brutally honest that you will hurt even worse. I mean, what if the AP starts telling you what to do to save your marriage? Or, why the affair even started? Or, what your spouse said about you (which coud be horribly hurtful)? Just let it lie and try to rebuild (if you think you can/want to). Yes, it would be great to confront the AP, but I don’t think it will help you at all.
This seems to be the majority answer so far. I know it’s the logical answer. The rational answer. Rational is my strong suite. Miss In Control lives her life by this standard. = ) What I should have mentioned before polling is that resisting the urge to do what people tell me I shouldn’t do has always been a struggle for me. That’s the inner caged me that rages to be freed from all the constraints and expectations heaped on top of me. The thing is, while I know it’s not rational to contact any of the women he slept with there is a small voice that tells me this particular one has answers. I know that something is not right. I’m not suggesting it’s still going on, though I also would not at this point be shocked because nothing would shock me now. I’ve seen too much from this man and his down swings and addictions. Lived too many lies.
He’s making efforts in a lot of areas and I love him for that, but he’s far behind the efforts I’ve put into this when it comes to learning about affairs, how to prevent them and how to make relationships stronger. We are still not focusing on recovery. We seem to have moved out of crisis mode and into cruise mode. Which is his most comfortable mode. He avoids the uncomfortable any way he can. We’re neither regressing or moving ahead. We are stuck in this place of limbo.
I know in my heart he’s left out much of the detail. I can tell this by how many gas light sessions we had in the beginning and how many versions of facts we have gone through. I know it by the way he is uncomfortable (willing and no longer angry and defensive but still uncomfortable) when I want to address things. It distresses him when ever we migrate back into affair discussion mode. And I know it by the way he says ask me anything but doesn’t voluntarily share anything. Never just lays out the story of their relationship or any of the others. And… by the tell tale sign of that slightly whiney sound in his voice when he answers me. Like a child who keeps saying No Mom I DIDN’T do anything, I swear to you, in that slightly higher pitched voice that expresses exasperation, and desperation to be believed so the questioning will just END. I ask, have any of the women contacted you and he says NO. NO ONE has contacted me. And I hear the voice of a child trying to end the interigation before they have to spill the truth. Wouldn’t it be easier to discuss it in a warm compassionate tone that reassured me and that made me believe he would tell me if they had contacted him? A tone that conveyed the eager desire to be accountable to me after what he’s done and says that he understands my need to question and for truth and that however uncomfortable it is to keep facing what he’s done that he understands it is his responsibility to do AT LEAST half of the work for healing, if not more? There is that part of me that feels I simply want the truth so I can move on. Part of me that feels like if it came from him then there would still be hope and if I find out he’s no more honest today than he was 7 months ago, then I’m completely wasting my time.
Ah, hun, how horrible. That limbo spot is one that is such a hard place to be. I wish that he was more of a man who could own up to what he did wrong. And your gut feeling is probably right, on both accounts. Yes, he’s probably still lying and, yes, she probably has answers. But the question is this: do you really want to know? Are you asking for the sake of making a decision (either to move forward or to stay)? Because I would still caution you to make sure your motives are right. What do you want to know? Is he still contacting these women? Probably (your gut is telling you yes). Is he lying about how many women he was with? Probably (your gut is also telling you yes on this one). He’s never going to fess up and tell the whole truth, either because he is to scared or because he just doesn’t think he needs to. I wish I could help you make this decision. I wish I could just say, “Yes, confront her.” But I’m not really sure that’s what you need or want. In the end, you can take all of our opinions and stuff them in the trash. This one is really on you. And whatever you decide to do, we will stand behind you and help you the best we can. No matter what, you have my support.
That means a lot to me. Knowing someone has been there doesn’t make it easier but it makes me feel less insane about life some days : ) You are wise. I don’t know my motives and that’s why I haven’t made a move yet. To be fair, I am not saying he is still seeing women or even contacting them. Only that I am constantly prepared for the probability that there are still lies left unresolved and that probability constanty enrages me. He has admitted to what he’s done, he feels remorse. He simply isn’t a man who likes to face things, or deal with the uncomfortable. He could be withholding facts for any number of reasons from thinking he is protecting me to not wanting to face who he’s been. I don’t know why I need to know these things or if I do. I guess I am reaching for something to either build on or a final straw to push me to give up. Yes, limbo is the worst! If he only understood the things I need. 1) to DEAL with it not avoid it which only drags it out longer 2) to feel his remorse in every bone of my body and to see daily evidence of the man he’s promised to be 3) for him to understand who I am, as opposed to what he made me out to be while he was justifying his actions or what he hopes me to be for him no. To KNOW ME and to know he loves me because of that.
Enough of all that for tonight. I’m doing well today and in a lot of ways I’m better now than I was before simply because I am taking my life back . I hope that you are also doing well these days!! Thanks so very much for all your thoughts. You’ve really been helpful!
I completely agree with Samantha. The ow made me feel even worse by telling me what I needed to do to fix my marriage. She told me they have sex when he said they didn’t. This leads to a lot of confusion and more mistrust. It’s easy to say “why would they lie, they’ve been hurt too.” But that’s just it, when they lose whatever they had they become bitter and spiteful too.
I’m sorry the OW made you feel worse. I hear what you are saying and yes, talking to one of them will probably wrack me with pain and images all over again. But damn it, this act of trusting after you have been lied to repeatedly….is a hard hard thing to do. Thanks for your comments and advice.
No, but not because of trusting your wayward spouse. But because A. the AP will likely NOT give you the truth. B. Because it causes more pain and confusion. NO NEW HURTS.
I contacted my husbands AP 2 months after DDay. Though she apologized, it was an “I’m sorry but” with rationalization and blameshifting and rug sweeping. She caused so many more questions. It did NOTHING to ease my mind at all. It opened the raw wounds even deeper and caused fresh ones.
Trickle truth sucks, and here I am almost a month later and still finding out tidbits I didn’t know then, but I’m getting the truth from my wayward spouse. More than I ever got from the affair partner.
She owed me nothing, she gave me nothing. She just rubbed salt in my wounds, and sent me further down the bunny trail of dispair.
Yes, good reasons not to contact any of them. All three of you ladies have left thoughtful advice and I appreciate it. I don’t know what I will do in the long run. For now the rational part of me is holding on. I don’t want to go there, stoop to it, give the others that kind of power over my life. We are nearing a phase of “this time last year” and it’s difficult. This time last year I was full bore in my discovery mode. Racking up evidence and tracking the odd behaviors and everything that didn’t add up. Knowing where it was headed and trying to fool myself into believing that surely he would not do it again, surely our plans for a future and our years together had come to mean something. Now, I find myself daily recalling this time last year. This time last year we were traveling together having a great trip when all the while SHE was part of his life, this time last year I discovered this profile or that, this time last year he was acting strangely arriving late, and leaving early, etc etc etc. Basically I dread the coming of summer because last summer what one continuous nightmare straight through to when I could finally catch him red handed in Sept. Getting through this summer and our D-day anniversary is a major stretch to travel in this recovery journey. Like needing to pee when the next rest stop is 100 miles up the road. = ) For now, I’m hearing what everyone is saying. Tomorrow…. who knows?
Oh honey, I understand completely. I’m coming up on all those trigger days too and I’m hurting so badly. So deeply. Father’s day last year is when FWH and his AP went from an EA to a PA. I’m struggling with this so much right now. And this year? He will be recovering from surgery and I have to deal with helping him, my triggers and my resentment of how he abandoned me during my illness for 4 years. So…yeah. I get it. I SO get it.
I know you do. You are one strong lady Samantha. My thoughts are with you this month and however hard any moment feels, remember how damn far you’ve come girl!! Thanks for all your insight on this topic!
Dear Dali,What is your view on the hoax by the two idiot DJs which allegedly caused the nurse to commit sucdiie?After all, if a person knowingly drives a car with faulty brakes and kills someone on the road, the driver can be charged with negligent manslaughter.
Recovering Wayward said:
And I know that my ex-OW would do anything she could to hurt my wife, to shake her up, to put a wrench in our recovery. I know that it pisses her off to no end that my wife and I are still together.
I would be careful with knowing too many details of an affair. I blogged about this. There are people that say that knowing too many details will damage and/or derail a recovery. It’s not where your focus needs to be. I don’t know your personal situation, but ask yourself this: What do you need to know and why? You’re not specific on this point. Do you not believe that he’s told you about the length and extent of the affair? Or are you looking for salacious details. How many times did they do it? Where did they do it?
And are you likely to get this info from the ex-OW? Will they be truthful, or self-serving, or worse, vicious? And once you get it, what will it do for you? And can you get it any other way?
As one psychologist said – she herself a former betrayed spouse — as recovery proceeds, you will find that you will need the details of the affair less and less. Knowing the details may actually hurt you and recovery. So try and resist the urge.
recover1day said:
Yeh, I suppose I wasn’t specific about what I want or need because it’s still undetermined. I suppose mostly I need a sense of whether my instincts are correct and I can trust reality or whether I must always be on guard for the other shoe to drop and a new variation of truth to be introduced. I suppose I want to know what she has that I don’t. While at the same time knowing she has nothing I don’t already have. She and every other was an illusion. I want to know if he lied to her about his feelings for her. Perhaps I want to know if she truly did not know about me. I want to know if he told her what he said he told her or if he left her hanging on just in case I decided to walk away. Maybe I want to break what ever control she has in my life, though rationally I know she has none. Hell wayward, I don’t know what I want from it. I know from your blog that things are not easy on the Waywards end of this mess but you can only imagine the amount of conflict on the betrayed side. There is logic in the concept that marriages or relationships that are lacking and don’t fill both needs are vulnerable to affairs. I understand the whole love bank concept. I get it. But the thing the wayward partner has such difficulty in understanding is that regardless of what problems there were, WE had no choice in this decision of infidelity. One of us was toughing it out, good or bad, and the other CHOSE to take their mind body and in some cases heart and share it with another or others. It is easy to comprehend what that might be like for us but it is much more difficult to be able to get in our skin and discover empathy that lets you FEEL what it’s like. Logic means absolutely nothing when it comes to trying to reconcile the emotions that we feel from it all. We can study love banks and need fulfillment and every other approach to the topic and it doesn’t matter that we get it. And trust me that most of us do. Still, the betrayed spouse has to get through the one single bottom line…Our partners chose to stray and we did not. We get through it, we do get stronger and relationships can thrive after the fact. But there are moments in between the devastation and the acceptance when logic just isn’t practical in our world. The only thing practical in our world is the determination to purge the rage, sorrow, and confusion and take ourselves and our lives back so that we can one day give ourselves again. I hope that makes sense. Some days I convey thoughts well. Other days.. not so much
Recovering Wayward said:
There’s no one answer. It depends on the situation. What was the nature of the affair? One night? or 5 years? How is the wayward spouse acting now? Are they making amends, making real changes in their behavior to live an honest and authentic life? And what of the AP? Do they have a stake in this at all? Are they making trouble? And what of the betrayed spouse? is there mind in the right place to handle things? What are their goals in talking to the AP?
And there must be other questions. Too many variables to have one answer to the question.
I know, for us, my wife contacting the AP would have no good outcomes, which is obvious to those who’ve read my blog.
recover1day said:
Thanks Wayward. I agree that there is not a one size fits all answer here. Just curious, why would there be no good outcome? Because your wife isn’t in a place where she could handle facing it or because the AP would tell her things that you have hidden or altered in some way? I’m not attacking, just genuinely curious about the waywards point of view.
Recovering Wayward said:
Well, because the OP is actively stalking and harassing me and is under court order to stay away from us.
But that aside, I truly think she is mentally ill. She has not admitted that she has done anything wrong — she is playing the victim. She is vicious, cruel, and “truth” is a floating concept to her. I can’t imagine that my wife would get anything out of discussing the situation with her that would be helpful, let alone accurate. In fact, she would probably want to rip her eyes out. My wife already knows what a destructive, jealous, narcissistic, bitch that she is — she’s given us plenty of evidence. Meeting with her would then gain what? Nothing, except serious ugliness. Maybe even violence.
recover1day said:
Thanks to all who have commented so far. It always helps to have people sharing their own experience and learned wisdom = )
theforgottenwife said:
There is no reason to contact the AP. I honestly think that they won’t tell the truth, or they’ll be so brutally honest that you will hurt even worse. I mean, what if the AP starts telling you what to do to save your marriage? Or, why the affair even started? Or, what your spouse said about you (which coud be horribly hurtful)? Just let it lie and try to rebuild (if you think you can/want to). Yes, it would be great to confront the AP, but I don’t think it will help you at all.
recover1day said:
This seems to be the majority answer so far. I know it’s the logical answer. The rational answer. Rational is my strong suite. Miss In Control lives her life by this standard. = ) What I should have mentioned before polling is that resisting the urge to do what people tell me I shouldn’t do has always been a struggle for me. That’s the inner caged me that rages to be freed from all the constraints and expectations heaped on top of me. The thing is, while I know it’s not rational to contact any of the women he slept with there is a small voice that tells me this particular one has answers. I know that something is not right. I’m not suggesting it’s still going on, though I also would not at this point be shocked because nothing would shock me now. I’ve seen too much from this man and his down swings and addictions. Lived too many lies.
He’s making efforts in a lot of areas and I love him for that, but he’s far behind the efforts I’ve put into this when it comes to learning about affairs, how to prevent them and how to make relationships stronger. We are still not focusing on recovery. We seem to have moved out of crisis mode and into cruise mode. Which is his most comfortable mode. He avoids the uncomfortable any way he can. We’re neither regressing or moving ahead. We are stuck in this place of limbo.
I know in my heart he’s left out much of the detail. I can tell this by how many gas light sessions we had in the beginning and how many versions of facts we have gone through. I know it by the way he is uncomfortable (willing and no longer angry and defensive but still uncomfortable) when I want to address things. It distresses him when ever we migrate back into affair discussion mode. And I know it by the way he says ask me anything but doesn’t voluntarily share anything. Never just lays out the story of their relationship or any of the others. And… by the tell tale sign of that slightly whiney sound in his voice when he answers me. Like a child who keeps saying No Mom I DIDN’T do anything, I swear to you, in that slightly higher pitched voice that expresses exasperation, and desperation to be believed so the questioning will just END. I ask, have any of the women contacted you and he says NO. NO ONE has contacted me. And I hear the voice of a child trying to end the interigation before they have to spill the truth. Wouldn’t it be easier to discuss it in a warm compassionate tone that reassured me and that made me believe he would tell me if they had contacted him? A tone that conveyed the eager desire to be accountable to me after what he’s done and says that he understands my need to question and for truth and that however uncomfortable it is to keep facing what he’s done that he understands it is his responsibility to do AT LEAST half of the work for healing, if not more? There is that part of me that feels I simply want the truth so I can move on. Part of me that feels like if it came from him then there would still be hope and if I find out he’s no more honest today than he was 7 months ago, then I’m completely wasting my time.
theforgottenwife said:
Ah, hun, how horrible. That limbo spot is one that is such a hard place to be. I wish that he was more of a man who could own up to what he did wrong. And your gut feeling is probably right, on both accounts. Yes, he’s probably still lying and, yes, she probably has answers. But the question is this: do you really want to know? Are you asking for the sake of making a decision (either to move forward or to stay)? Because I would still caution you to make sure your motives are right. What do you want to know? Is he still contacting these women? Probably (your gut is telling you yes). Is he lying about how many women he was with? Probably (your gut is also telling you yes on this one). He’s never going to fess up and tell the whole truth, either because he is to scared or because he just doesn’t think he needs to. I wish I could help you make this decision. I wish I could just say, “Yes, confront her.” But I’m not really sure that’s what you need or want. In the end, you can take all of our opinions and stuff them in the trash. This one is really on you. And whatever you decide to do, we will stand behind you and help you the best we can. No matter what, you have my support.
recover1day said:
That means a lot to me. Knowing someone has been there doesn’t make it easier but it makes me feel less insane about life some days : ) You are wise. I don’t know my motives and that’s why I haven’t made a move yet. To be fair, I am not saying he is still seeing women or even contacting them. Only that I am constantly prepared for the probability that there are still lies left unresolved and that probability constanty enrages me. He has admitted to what he’s done, he feels remorse. He simply isn’t a man who likes to face things, or deal with the uncomfortable. He could be withholding facts for any number of reasons from thinking he is protecting me to not wanting to face who he’s been. I don’t know why I need to know these things or if I do. I guess I am reaching for something to either build on or a final straw to push me to give up. Yes, limbo is the worst! If he only understood the things I need. 1) to DEAL with it not avoid it which only drags it out longer 2) to feel his remorse in every bone of my body and to see daily evidence of the man he’s promised to be 3) for him to understand who I am, as opposed to what he made me out to be while he was justifying his actions or what he hopes me to be for him no. To KNOW ME and to know he loves me because of that.
Enough of all that for tonight. I’m doing well today and in a lot of ways I’m better now than I was before simply because I am taking my life back . I hope that you are also doing well these days!! Thanks so very much for all your thoughts. You’ve really been helpful!
il80 said:
I completely agree with Samantha. The ow made me feel even worse by telling me what I needed to do to fix my marriage. She told me they have sex when he said they didn’t. This leads to a lot of confusion and more mistrust. It’s easy to say “why would they lie, they’ve been hurt too.” But that’s just it, when they lose whatever they had they become bitter and spiteful too.
recover1day said:
I’m sorry the OW made you feel worse. I hear what you are saying and yes, talking to one of them will probably wrack me with pain and images all over again. But damn it, this act of trusting after you have been lied to repeatedly….is a hard hard thing to do. Thanks for your comments and advice.
Samantha Baker said:
No, but not because of trusting your wayward spouse. But because A. the AP will likely NOT give you the truth. B. Because it causes more pain and confusion. NO NEW HURTS.
I contacted my husbands AP 2 months after DDay. Though she apologized, it was an “I’m sorry but” with rationalization and blameshifting and rug sweeping. She caused so many more questions. It did NOTHING to ease my mind at all. It opened the raw wounds even deeper and caused fresh ones.
Trickle truth sucks, and here I am almost a month later and still finding out tidbits I didn’t know then, but I’m getting the truth from my wayward spouse. More than I ever got from the affair partner.
She owed me nothing, she gave me nothing. She just rubbed salt in my wounds, and sent me further down the bunny trail of dispair.
recover1day said:
Yes, good reasons not to contact any of them. All three of you ladies have left thoughtful advice and I appreciate it. I don’t know what I will do in the long run. For now the rational part of me is holding on. I don’t want to go there, stoop to it, give the others that kind of power over my life. We are nearing a phase of “this time last year” and it’s difficult. This time last year I was full bore in my discovery mode. Racking up evidence and tracking the odd behaviors and everything that didn’t add up. Knowing where it was headed and trying to fool myself into believing that surely he would not do it again, surely our plans for a future and our years together had come to mean something. Now, I find myself daily recalling this time last year. This time last year we were traveling together having a great trip when all the while SHE was part of his life, this time last year I discovered this profile or that, this time last year he was acting strangely arriving late, and leaving early, etc etc etc. Basically I dread the coming of summer because last summer what one continuous nightmare straight through to when I could finally catch him red handed in Sept. Getting through this summer and our D-day anniversary is a major stretch to travel in this recovery journey. Like needing to pee when the next rest stop is 100 miles up the road. = ) For now, I’m hearing what everyone is saying. Tomorrow…. who knows?
Thanks Samantha
Samantha Baker said:
Oh honey, I understand completely. I’m coming up on all those trigger days too and I’m hurting so badly. So deeply. Father’s day last year is when FWH and his AP went from an EA to a PA. I’m struggling with this so much right now. And this year? He will be recovering from surgery and I have to deal with helping him, my triggers and my resentment of how he abandoned me during my illness for 4 years. So…yeah. I get it. I SO get it.
recover1day said:
I know you do. You are one strong lady Samantha. My thoughts are with you this month and however hard any moment feels, remember how damn far you’ve come girl!! Thanks for all your insight on this topic!
Pepper said:
Dear Dali,What is your view on the hoax by the two idiot DJs which allegedly caused the nurse to commit sucdiie?After all, if a person knowingly drives a car with faulty brakes and kills someone on the road, the driver can be charged with negligent manslaughter.
thepillarsofherearth said:
Reblogged this on The Pillars of Her Earth.
recover1day said:
Pillars, thanks for reposting. I hope all is well with you and yours….
recover1day said:
It seems to take a few seconds for the poll to appear…